Retirement

 

Host: Diane Oakley, the executive director of national institute on retirement security, thanks for joining us.

Diane: thank you, pleasure got to be here this morning.

Host: are people using their retirement funds too early?

Diane: you know, what we are seeing is this really big squeeze on the middle class. You know, the middle class incomes is in stagnant and what's happening to a certain stagnant is, we always have certain number of people who haven't saved anything for retirement, about half of the population have nothing saved for their retirement and in fact now we also are seeing report just this week, it's about one out of four households are having their savings in the 401(K) to pay for bills like daily expenses or other types of things and that has some real long term consequences on retirement security.

Host: about 26% according to (inaudible) the group of HelloWallet, 26% are getting into their funds early, a 33% of those works tapping to their funds in their 40s, 75% who breach those the accounts do so because they have basic money management challenges 8% of those who lost their job, 20% more workers tapping their funds since 2008. What those numbers tell you?

Diane: it's a tough situation around a lot of kitchen tables. You know, when you are sitting down figuring out how do we pay these bills and if you have been lucky enough to put away some money 401(K) plan and you are facing those type of bills and the situation trying to say maybe I could tap to 401(K) plan and you know I'm in my 40s, retirement is 20 years 25 years off for me but you know what? You don't have enough times in those 20 to 25 years to really make up difference and that's a key thing to think about is right now you did the right thing, put the money away 401(K) plan, compound interests are going to work for you dramatically. You know, we know if somebody puts money in a for—let's say you put two thousand dollars a year away in 401(K) or in IRA (Individual Retirement Account) when you are 20 to the time you are 30. That twenty two thousand dollars will give you like almost eighty five thousand dollars in interests even in a interest rate like 4%. If you then wait and save from the time you were 30 to the time you are 70 or 65, so you are going to save for 35 year, you're going to put away seventy thousand dollars. You would actually earn less interest on that money because you have less time so times on your side and it's tempting to take that retirement money and help for paying crisis you face today but you really need to start thinking about maybe I need to find a way in my budgeting to get there because you are going to have some impacts.

Host: about—when it comes to annual retirement accounts, there is about 294 billion dollars as we speak about employees contribution about 176 billion dollars, employers contribution about 118 billion dollars but early withdrawals targeted about 70 billion dollars and its about 25%.

Diane: you know it sounds when you talk about that trillion dollars, it sounds like a lot of money but when you really come down to what is the medium amount of money in those assets, it's what significantly lower for a household. Households better reserved tells us for people who actually saving and remember 50% of people don't even have a retirement account but for the people who are saving, they only got about forty four thousand dollars that already told us their median account value is about twenty five thousand dollars at the end of—I guess the third courter of 2012. So people don't really have a lot of money in those accounts but that money ultimately is going to have the last when they are retirement for as long as they live which could be up to 20 years.

Host: our guest is here to talk about the fact that the more of the American of the US going into their retirement savings too early to talk about the liabilities because of that if you want to ask question about it you can do so on our lines for democrats its 202585380 for republicans 202585381 and independents 202585382. Send you thought on twitter C-SPAIN as well. At base what's the penalty for withdrawing early?

Diane: you know, if you take your funds out early and you are not disabled and you know you can do that, it's liable, you are going to have to pay income taxes on those moneys when you withdraw them, plus in many cases you will be paying 10% penalty. So for somebody who is even-- most with these withdraws and this is something that (inaudible) did are happening in incomes under 50 thousand dollars. So those people are probably—could be even paying equal amounts in tax penalties to what they are paying under their tax liability.

Host: So right off that they are losing a lot of that

Diane: you are losing a lot of it terms of that and then you are also losing that potential compounding over the years which is really hard to make up.

Host: they talk about the argument, you know I'll take it out, I'll pay it back.

Diane: you can try to pay it back but again that illustration that I gave to you earlier, you know those first ten years or eleven years if they are early, they are so powerful, they are like the east that keeps the retirements and savings growing, that actually could give you 65% more income in that retirement. If you can't afford to save and you have to pull out your dollars, how you're going to find the money to save maybe double up your savings to make that different. So there is some real consequences that people need to think about and you know, some people say don't touch the retirement account if you can.

Host: can you take a loan against your retirement account?

Diane: you can take a loan against your retirement account and then you will be paying back your loan and that's probably the third thing to do but even that has some kinds of consequences because we find that about 17% people who take out loans end up defaulting those loans and then they have tax liability and the penalty all apply—

Host: so you're saying it's the same if they just took out all together--

Diane: exactly

Host: first call Jerald for I guess democrats line, hi—I didn't push the button sorry Jerald, Jerald before you go too far start again because I got you late. Go ahead.

Jerald: oh ok just I have question for Miss Oakley.

Diane: yes Jerald

Jerald: I'm an old and my sixty, sixty three years old. Is it too late to make start an individual retirement account I mean I hopefully live for you know, a few more years. I'm an independent contact of base I have a farm and rental property and you know taking out some money till I'm 70 years old--

Diane: You know I think it's— thanks so much Jerald. We talked about the fact that the power of compounding working for younger folks but I think at this pointing time anything anyone can save is going to be helpful. You know, everyone of us and you are talking about working to 70 and the type of work you may be doing specially farming, that could be a pretty intensive type of industry you never know if something happens so I would defiantly encourage you to think about starting of some types of saving if you haven't done anything also think about either other after tax saving even you max out in your 401(K) plan where you could put money that's one of the things that unfortunately too many other people don't do as they don't save for that—that rainy day might happen.

Host: Sasha looks at the other side of asking how many 401(K)s are paying fees which total $100,000 over the life time of plan?

Diane: you know fees is a real important for a 401(K) plans and there have been studies taking about again you have to be careful when you invest your money in a 401(K) plan, you want to look at the fee structure if you sees—if you have what difference of about thirty a hundred bases points could actually make it difference of about 1.25% less income when you retire. So you want to make sure as you are doing a 401(K) plan, you are using investments that have reasonable fees and have a good balance of investment performance.

Host: Is there a guide line what the reasonable fee is?

Diane: you know it depends. There is a lot of differences depending on the risking the fund. Some of the index funds of people who are actually I think the small amounts. You can get a good balance of portfolio. There is a lot of new things called target date funds which help people. One of the other choices that happens in a 401(K) plan is people don't know where they want to invest and we have seen with the stock market and now for a lot of younger investors become more conservative because they have seen their 401(K) accounts maybe when they change jobs and they get a check actually get less money they might put in because the market went down and so they are relocked to put money into the stock market but a target date funds so look that you are over your life time and says but if you are younger you can take more risks if you are older we move you into something more conservative those are give you a good expect of investment and many of them are available reasonable costs but they still costs more money than what you are getting in your old traditional pension.

Host: Florida, next Janie independent line. Hi

Janie: Good morning, how are you?

Host: fine thank you go ahead.

Janie: I have a comment for Miss Oakley and a question. I'm retired, I'm able to survive on my social security and our retirement savings but I have a lot of friend who I'm sure there is millions of the early chair baby boomer out there that lost millions in the stock market but at seventy and a half you have to start taking from your (inaudible) so force and there is still time to make up what they have lost. Is there any chance that rule might change to where we are pushing it for the back. I don't want to start taking money out at the seventy and a half because I don't need it but with the lot spend being so long now for a lot of people I certainly may need it for going down the road—

Host: Jinee before you go tell us a little about your strategy and the fact that you don't have to tap in your funds yet?         

Janie: I will. I put fifteen percent of my pay in my 401(K). I couldn't do that in the begging but as soon as I could then I did, my home is paid for, my (inaudible) is paid for, and I just—I live a simple life style.

Host: thank you Janie.

Diane: Janie, you know, you are absolutely right. You are really in a unique situation where your social security, your saving are able to keep you in life style which you have been living—

Host: And she was talking bank account assuming or some type of

Diane: --or some type of—but she talks about fifteen percent in IRA or 401(K) plan and that's a pretty substantial contribution and she has done that, she has done the hard work and she is able to read those three words. You know one of the things that just came out this week, the AARP( The American Association of Retired Persons) and the urban fund institute released to report and one of the things that really disturbing for all the Americans I think might come in down the pike is that they have suggested that if they have trends continue to where they are, we will see one out of three seniors far from middle class to low income and for people between the ages of 45 and 54, we would actually see almost 4 out of 10, 37% far from middle income to low income because of the market and not being able to make up for those loses so we are point about can we push back the amount of when people can take out their 401(K) savings, I think that something that congress has looked at, there have been proposals on that one of the problems is of course is today's environment where revenue scares for the federal government looking for every choice. The more we push that back that does have a really high revenue lost figure so it's one of those—there is a lot of thing we need to do to really help American save that would cost us tax revenue today but will really give us a better America in the future and we need to start thinking about that we probably need to think about, you know we talked about the American dream, well, we forced the American told us that they have found that like losing traditional pensions- the type of pension that you know you worked with an employer and they gave you an income for the rest of your life losing that has put the American dreamer rest for three forth of American people and so one of the things that we think we need to think about is how do we find ways to get more people saving to get them saving more money and having features that look like retirement plans they give them guarantee check. You know the real think you want to do when you retire is you don't want to necessarily get a bucket of money, you need to have a pay check replace the pay check you are going to lose.

Host: Rabbit Ran asked about if there is exceptions that allow for distribution of 401(K)s without a penalty?

Diane: there are. If you are disabled, if you die you can take the money out without the penalty but death or disability are really bad sometimes congress has (inaudible) situations meets other special exceptions if you are long term unemployed or something like that but by in large you know, if you just take in out to help for some of your bills unless they are like exceedingly high medical bills you probably will have to pay that 10% penalty.

Host: congress did create the 401(K)?

Diane: congress created the 401(K) plans back in 1978. It was done really to be a supplement for those traditional pensions and what has happened over the last 30 to 40 years, the retirement security risks have shifted and so fine contribution plans have really become more the predominate plan for private sector employees.

Host: our guest is the executive director of national institute on retirement security, she is the Diane Oakley. Next call is Pennsylvania Gem on our republican line.

Gem: hi Diane. I'm a financial service professional. I've been in this service for 14 years since I retired from military and what I see in the ORISA regulation is heavy (inaudible) and heavy favoritism force employers in qualified plans. How we suppose to help to protect the average American, the average worker and get them to save more money for retirement when businesses are using the regulations on their ORISA to care about large pieces and cash balance, patient plans and other types of qualified plans plus the tax deduction for doing it and at the same time not helping the workers anywhere as far as they could or should—

Host: caller, If you can define ORISA please.

Gem: The retirement income security act which is the laws and the regulations on the department of labor that govern 401(K) plans and other qualified plans, Diane Oakley please welcome you are with us.

Host: thank you caller. Miss Oakley?

Diane: hi Gem, thank you very much for that and thank you for defining what ORISA is for everybody. You know, it's actually almost been forty years since that (inaudible), legislation on pensions was passed after seven major cooperation when bankrupt and employees lost their pension so provides a guarantee of pensioning for people but it does have a lot of opportunity to gain the system I think we are working on, you know, congress the treasury is identifying those type of situations when they can but we do need to sometimes look back at laws and say are we losing something because of that and that's part of the legislative processes we know here in Washington. We looked at, you know, Senator Harkin recently released a white paper on pension and he was suggesting there might be a way that we ought to be looking at pensions in a different way especially one of the places we know people find it hard to say this and there is small employer, a lot of small employers cant afford to offer their employees' pension and so what they end up doing is those employees have nothing there that comes right out of their pay checks. It's really easy to save when the money comes out of your pay check and that's one of the real benefits of 401(K) plans. So you want to find ways that employers can provide plans for employees but those small employers may find a better if there is some way that they can pull their resources together and come up with some other entity that takes some of that risks and help their employees.

Host: I've heard you say 401(K), I've heard you say IRA.What are the differences between the two?

Diane: a 401(K) plan is a plan sponsored by your employer and you get that through your work place, the money typically come right of your paycheck and go right in to your 401(K) plan. If you are in education you might have a 403(B) plan and if you are a teacher. If you are – an IRA is an individual retirement account and that's an account for someone who himself employed and that's where you have to actually take the money and go to the bank, go to the financial institution and make that contribution so if you are like independent contractor like other caller that's where you are going to go and you are going to get that contribution, you probably not going to get a match like you would in a 401(K) plan from your employer.

Host: I've heard of a Roth IRA, What is that?

Diane: a Roth IRA (An individual retirement account allowing a person to set aside after-tax income up to a specified amount each year). is slightly different product. It's a retirement security product. The benefit of a traditional IRA is the money goes into that plan before you pay taxes. A Roth IRA the money goes in after taxes but is treated differently when it comes out, when it comes out of the IRA your money is not taxable to use as an income. So you have choice of do you want to pay the taxes today because you think that tax rates are the lowest that might be and they might go up in the future or would you rather get that extra let's say fifteen or twenty five percent by not paying taxes on that money go into your account and work for you and grow over times and there is a lot of people who are saying maybe younger people might be more interested in Roth IRA because the sort of flounce of where tax rates going to be in another ten years.

Host: Rock Roll city (inaudible) democrat's line.

Caller: hello

Host: you are on sir. Go ahead

Caller: yeah, my question is I have this feeling about all of it. Now I have spent in 401(K) for about twenty years for no longer and it's just been one up and down after another. I mean you look at stock market why don't (inaudible) in the stock market because it's so scary it went up and down two or three times. She has lost her money two or three times. We bailed out once I not so scared because I thought it's the last trip I mean it's down for six thousand how can you sit there and let the money continue to go away. So we made it and put to a safer 5% you know whatever they say it say for them if we are in the long run it's so complicated my wife once called 401(K) b plan or c plan it's like way, way back so the rules are different and some of them are new rules and it's just one bad after another we try to keep up and so we have no clue or even we are going to end up or she is going to end up I'm disabled and so I locked up my 401(K) for way, way back and never ever there was back in the one because there was no initiative I kept seeing the money disappear and I had a lawyer one time told me it's a spunky skin and its (inaudible) stock market is all of all about.

Host: thank you.

Diane: thank you. You know, the volatility of having investments in stock market is a real risk and I think there is a lot of sense when 401(K) plans were first introduced the timing of them was just as the market was really going on a real raise and everybody oh this is great I can control my money I know how to manage I can make more money than a professional investment manager but I think what we found is as we look back that hasn't been the case and we know when we look at data on the old traditional benefit plans. Those plans are typically with professional management the types of investments they can make they are making about a hundred to two hundred bases points more on those investments than when we ask the individuals to become financial analyst, you know so if we ask the financial analyst during the working years and then we get into is then we have to ask them to become an actuary when they retire figure out how they are going to take this maybe it's a pull of a hundred thousand dollars and make that hundred thousand dollars last for twenty years and that's a tough challenge specially when you think that, you know the average source of security benefit, the most individuals get fourteen thousand dollars if you add let's say if you had a thousand dollars which is the median amount that people having in 401(K) plans according to federal reserved between the time they are 55 and 64 so maybe you get five thousand dollars a year from that and that actually like ninety thousand dollars but you know actually also this week another group issued something called retirement elderly index which said how much does an elderly household need to meet basic living expenses and they said an elderly single person needs about 23 thousand dollars so people are coming up short for very basic needs and when we are talking about 23 thousand dollars a year, we are talking about somebody renting a one bedroom apartment for like 7 hundred dollars—

Host: And we assume that healthy

Diane: In a month no matter health care cost but I don't even know where like here in Washington DC where you find a one bedroom apartment for seven hundred dollars.

Host: this is a little specific but viewer asked can SEP perhaps he means simple IRAs be converted to Roth IRAs and when is it beneficial to do so?

Diane: I believe that SEPs can be convert, SEPs are special type of IRA for self employed individuals and I think most IRAs can be converted to a Roth and I think what you normally do if you can see if you can afford to pay taxes on the Roth and you think the tax rates are going to be higher for you when you retire, you might want to take that money out pay the taxes today but the idea of think to keep those—the same dollars invested.

Host: Bell with Pennsylvania, Bell on republican line (inaudible) go ahead.

Bell: morning Diane.

Diane: morning Bell.                              

Bell: the reason I'm calling is I messed up my 401(K) in 2004 and last year I put maximum of my money in my IRA also and this year I believe the limit is sixty eight thousand five hundred for an individual for using my IRA after a 401(K) max, is that true?

Diane: I'm not sure, typically if you are putting money in to a 401(K) plan when you put money into an IRA you don't get the same, you not sort of able to double, you usually have to put that money in after tax, is that what you have done?

Bell: Right I put after the money after tax—

Diane: Ok. I'm not exactly sure what the dollar amount is in terms of that. That is something that most people want but what we really have is the majority people don't even come close to max out there in 401(K) plan. You know the one thing that is available I will mention this for people who wants to hit fifty you know there is something called the catch up election which allows people to put more money in their 401(K) plan and in their IRA once they hit fifty so in some cases people do up almost to 23 thousand dollars a year.

Host: statement from Laura in twitter says the only way to make it in retirement is to have paid your house off completely. Another from Maverick a question Ms Oakley what laws or mechanism are in place to keep workers pension safe or protected for moneys already paid in.

Diane: ok. Let me go through the first one in terms of the mortgage you are absolutely right. Having your mortgage paid off completely is a big plus. The problem with that today is when you look at the numbers of households even senior households, you know good number of them—the majority have paid off mortgage but I think as we see the baby-boomers getting towards retirement more and more of them tap their home equity to help for their kids for education to maybe expand their houses or something so more and more people are going to retirement either with the mortgage or perhaps as a renter and I think that's going to be more and more of an issue and we also have seen what's happened when we rely on just housing value that's also been an eye opening experience for many individuals. In terms of second question which—

Host: asked about the mechanisms are in placed to protect the pensions—

Diane: protect the pensions. The law that was mentioned earlier, the employee retirement income security act ERISA does have a protection for define benefit pensions and that provides the federal government under the pension benefit guarantee cooperation which is a separate cooperation employers pay a premium to organization and that organization provides a guaranteed level of pension protection for all private sector Americans. For define contribution plans which the money is really in a 401(K) account and how that goes up and down and how it fluctuates that would depend on the value you have and the financial firm that you got those dollars invested with.

Host: just some facts about 2010 retirement accounts: 28% had a loan against retirement accounts and 7% of those took hardship withdrawals with a 40% increase since the recession, 42% of workers cashed out plans when changing jobs. Next call Tonya—or its Addison New Jersey, Richard independent line.

Richard: Good morning Ms Oakley I have a question you kind of have touched earlier. I have been unemployed for about a year and I was took my IRA but I wanted to go get my medical bills and I'm just wondering you said—I know you could take out money for medical expenses from your IRA but you also said for long term unemployed, I'm wonder I'm unemployed for about a year I don't know If that qualify long term. Can you explain a little bit about that and also as far the medical expenses (inaudible) like how much I guess if you don't have a job I guess that would be concern about over year (inaudible) only explain about (inaudible)  the a little bit.

Diane: right. The medical expenses has to be about seven and a half percent of your income. So in your case when you have a lower amount of income you maybe more able to meet that sort of threshold in terms of that, in terms of the long term unemployed I have to—I'm probably not ready to say where the ten percent penalty applies when it doesn't apply. We will be happy to get in touch with you or find a way of reach you and respond to that for you but generally I think its long term in that a lot of ways might be maybe a year or something like that but I'm not sure.

Host: you touched on this. What kind of education tools are there to help people make decisions about how their invest are in 401(K)s.

Diane: you know it's really interesting. One of the things that we have just did it. There is a lot of surveys this week I think maybe as a change in the (inaudible) coming up people wanted to get retirement security on to the front burner but a survey also came out in—but it really said there is a lot of workers really want to get help from their employers so the first place to go if you got an employee, you got an employer plan is go to that employer go to the charged department, go to the providers in the plan, get some information from them, quite of in their have seminars for you to learn but we really to need is just think about nationally some type of campaign to educate folks. There is a good website called choose to save here that you can reach a googol choose to save and get you to a whole of tools including something called (inaudible) to help you figure out how much money you need to save. Most people spend more time planning in their vacation, they may do plan in their retirement—

Host: because I think they put information they see a final figure and they think that's not possible—

Diane: That's not possible and it is. there is a lot of that I can't do but you know, if you start a little bit and this is the other thing that there is new tools out there, a lot of employers are doing something called automatic enrolment and so what they do is Ill say if you come in you new employee, we are going to roll you in 401(K) plan, we are going to take the money out your pay, we are going to match it if we have a matching plan and we will continue to put that and invest it for you and in a fund that is a reasonable fund for you. And we might even on a risk away, so we may be gradually those contribution and employees, you know they survey that came out from state (inaudible), I believe said employees really do like that idea. You know the inertia is really helpful, having a make all those decisions when you first become manageable is a tough situation and people aren't really sure whether they are making the right choices or not so inertia and having a way that takes care does help.

Host: here is Lithonia Georgia, democratic lines Ouzel, good morning.

Ouzel: good morning, thank you for taking my call. My question is my husband has 401(K) and I also have a saving account, checking account. I feel more comfortable by just putting money in the bank and save it. Is that a good idea? Thank you.

Diane: Ouzel you know, there is two things everybody needs to do, we need to save for our retirement and we also need to have some money in the bank for those emergencies and that is really—the real reason why so many people are taking money out of their 401(K) plans is that, you know, they hits some kind of situation, maybe they had a go and put more health care bill on their credits card. Their kid, tripped, broken ankle, they have got a big medical bill at the emergency room or something or their car broke down, they need to repair the car. But you don't have that rainy day fund and you go and hit the 401(K) account. You got extra taxes and penalties plus you lose that good thing you have done in terms of saving. So I think you really need to do a mix of both, I mean the other (inaudible) that 401(K) savings are longer term. So you can take more risk in those and hopefully get a better return, I think it's hard to think about saving today when you know when you go into 401 and bank account and you are getting less than 1% interest but it's really important to have some stable money, they are for those you know, unforeseen but important expenses that could pop up.

Host: A viewer kind of brought up what we have talked about and the fact that he says many Americans are drawing money out because the cant make it now, incomes are falling, how can they save?

Diane: you know, it's hard to think about it, how can you save but if you think about just putting away maybe one or two percent, the next time if you are lucky enough to get raise and might know that for a lot of people needs less couple of years and its not been easy but making that commitment is something and I think we all can go through and find some way that we can do it but we often do is save after, you know, we look and say I got spent this and this and I save whatever is left and the other point is if we can think about paying ourselves first another way pay yourself first put that money away for your savings, the next time you got a raise and the time after that increase a little bit and it's not as painful and you ultimately get there and it really—it is necessary if you are going to not see this down word, trend in as we get older we really have more seniors being low income seniors and we know that things like pension plans which are declining  and people having them have such a (inaudible) power. Nerds itself has done research and we found that retirees with the defined benefit plan are nine times more likely not to fall into poverty than people who don't have a defined benefit plan.

Host: here is Mary from Brooklyn Florida, republican line. Hello

Mary: Hello

Host: you are on mam

Mary: thank you for taking my call, I want to say that first of all my husband and I have saved the maximum of our life. We have had a budget and lived on a budget. We've paid out mortgages early. we are retired now we feel comfortable except now we are reading about this bill hr.449 where the government can take over talking about the government taking over your 401(K) case and converting them to a like a annuity and they would pay 3% a year—I mean 3% interest but 3% doesn't even keep up with inflation and like an annuity when you die, your money is gone, you don't pass it to on your ears. Can you clarify this bill, is it a current bill or is this something that really looking at, can you just clarify that for me?

Diane: Mary thank you, giving the bill number hr.449, I'm assuming that's a bill form prior congress. one of the things that happens is every times congress gets back into session, it's like gets clean and new bills need to be re-introduced so I want to assume right now that they haven't introduce since congress has been back a week forty thousands of pieces of legislations, I'm assuming it's an old bill, I'm not fully aware but there is a lot of concern to Mary about, I know some people have concerns about annuities and what they do but a annuity is also can provide people with a great deal of help as well. A lot of people want to be able to have an income guaranteed for paying them for a s long as they live just like a 401—a traditional pension plan used to do and the insurance companies, they are all for annuities they regulated, they are protected and it's not necessarily skim to take away people's money, it is a way of providing and insuring against living too long and out living you saving so they are some really good reasons for having life time income. In fact one of the things I think we need to find a way is to get more life time income choices because we remember what I talked about earlier what you really need to replace in retirement is you pay check and so it's going to be really important to make sure people really have ways of knowing that a check is going to them in a mail besides their checks from social security.

Host: here is our last call and has to be quick one. This is Robert Teri Mississippi, independent line, go ahead.

Robert: Yes, I retired in 2006 and my 401 I have a hundred and twenty nine thousand dollars in it I kept reading on the internet before Obama would nominate to get the money out of stock market. I didn't think much about it and the week he was nominated I had ninety two thousand dollars left, I lost down twelve thousand dollars and I have talked to a lot of people and they lost like seventy five percent of theirs. This is never been on the news or anything and I think this contributed to the stock market drop.

Diane: Caller I appreciate yourself concern. I think when we look at the market decline that happen in 2008 and continued to 2009 it didn't quick down for every one as broadly as it did in the circumstances that you put forward but I think again a lot of people of the markets come back a little bit and we found what—sometimes what happens is people when they see the market go down, one of the things we tend to is to pull out market at the wrong time and we go into the market at the wrong time. We tend to over invest sometimes when the market is going up and put more money in equities and less money in those fixed kind of stagy incomes that gives you a life time or some type—

Host: and (inaudible) is our line NIRS.org is the website for guest organization for--  I assume you can find information these questions we talked about today. Diane Oakley serves the executive director of national institute on retirement security. Thank you for your time.

Diane: Your welcome thank you for being here.                            

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صابری  | ۱۳۹۲ يکشنبه ۳۰ تير
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